印度网友:为啥英国没像对印度那样彻底侵占中国(图)

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印度虽然自古军力孱弱,但凭借其相对悠久的历史和海量的人口,也曾具有相当实力。所以其实英国虽然征服印度的整个过程也非常曲折,用时超过200年。而且印度在最终放弃抵抗之前,也曾发动了大规模反击,并导致了英国东印度公司的覆灭。在美版知乎Quora上,印度网友提问道:为什么英国没能像占领印度那样彻底侵占中国?我们看看各国网友的观点。



问题:为什么英国没能像侵占印度那样彻底占领中国?



英国网友迈克尔•波托芬的回答


As I have always understood, Britain has never conquered China like India, for many reasons.

按照我一直的理解,英国从未像印度那样征服过中国,原因有很多。

1. Unlike India, China is a unified empire that can mobilize a huge army against any invading force. The British people's favorite strategy is to use the existing internal differences to do things, from Ireland to North American tribes to India. This is not feasible for China. The British believe that if there are easier choices elsewhere, the invasion is not worth it.

1.与印度不同,一个多世纪前的中国是一个统一的帝国,可以动员一支庞大的军队对抗任何入侵势力。英国人最喜欢的策略是利用现有的内部分歧搞事情,从爱尔兰到北美部落再到印度,无不如此。这对中国来说是行不通的,英国人认为,如果其他地方有更容易的选择,入侵就不值得了。

Part of the reason is that for a long time, China has been considered too powerful militarily to invade in any case. However, the opium war in modern times dispelled this idea.

部分原因是,长期以来,中国被认为在军事上过于强大,无论如何都无法入侵。然而,近代的鸦片战争打消了这种想法。

2. The main value of China to Britain in modern times is as a market and a source of goods. The main goal of the British Empire in most operations is not to acquire territory, although there are exceptions, such as Australia. As a capitalist behemoth, its main goal is to provide supply and market for its industry. China is a market for opium and other commodities, as well as a supplier of goods such as silk and porcelain, which are in great demand among the emerging British middle class. From this perspective, invasion is not only unnecessary, but also will disrupt market forces.

2.近代的中国对英国的主要价值是作为市场和商品来源。大英帝国在大多数行动中的主要目标都不是获得领土,尽管也有例外,比如澳大利亚。作为一个资本主义庞然大物,它的主要目标是为其行业提供供应和市场。中国是鸦片和其他商品的市场,也是丝绸和瓷器等商品的供应地,这些商品在新兴的英国中产阶级中需求量很大。从这个角度来看,入侵不仅没有必要,而且会扰乱市场力量。

3. By the 19th century, besides Britain, there were other empires interested in China. China is right between the interests of Britain, Russia and Japan (by 1900). In addition, the French also participated in the affairs of China and India (Southeast Asia). Although the United Kingdom, Russia and Japan can establish a "sphere of influence" in China (which mainly means controlling trade), any comprehensive invasion by the United Kingdom will be regarded as breaking the balance of power. The United Kingdom will soon find itself in war with Russia, Japan, and possibly France, and will fight with the Chinese army. Although the Chinese army is poorly equipped, it will have a number and local advantages.

3.到19世纪,除了英国之外,还有其他帝国对中国感兴趣。中国正好处于英国、俄罗斯和(到1900年)日本利益的纠葛之间。此外,法国人也参与了中印(东南亚)的事务。虽然英国、俄罗斯和日本可以在中国境内建立“势力范围”(这主要意味着控制贸易),但英国的任何全面入侵都会被视为破坏力量平衡,英国很快就会发现自己与俄罗斯、日本,可能还有法国开战,并与中国军队作战,尽管中国军队装备很差,将拥有数量和本土优势。

There are other reasons, but these three points explain why the invasion of China is unrealistic at best for the British Empire. In fact, it may seriously damage their own interests.

还有其他原因,但这三点说明了为什么入侵中国对大英帝国来说充其量是不切实际的,事实上可能会严重损害他们自己的利益。

Similarly, the main purpose of the British Empire is not territory, but profit. Why didn't the British move out of Hong Kong after the Second Opium War? They could have easily asked China for more, but they didn't. They seized Hong Kong and had exclusive trading rights in Guangzhou and Shanghai. In the 19th century, as a haven for British businessmen and a naval base in the region, Hong Kong was feasible, but the rulers of the Qing Dynasty were short-sighted and believed that Hong Kong had no real value.

同样,大英帝国的主要目的不是领土,而是利润。第二次鸦片战争后,为什么英国人没有迁出香港?他们本可以很容易地向中国要求更多,但没有。他们强占香港,并在广州和上海拥有独家贸易权。十九世纪,香港作为英国商人的避风港,作为该地区的海军基地,是切实可行的,但清朝统治者鼠目寸光,认为香港并没有真正的价值。



海外网友安萨克温特的回答


For the British, they realize that China is a powerful country. In addition, unlike India, China has a longer history as a joint force. These evidences prove that China is stronger and more resilient than they (the British) expected.

对于英国人来说,他们意识到中国是一个强国。此外,与印度不同,中国作为一支联合部队的历史更长。这些证据证明,中国比他们(英国人)预期的更强大、更有韧性。

However, the United Kingdom understands that it is possible to exhaust this weak ancient country.

然而,英国明白,将这个虚弱的古国消耗殆尽是可能的。

China has a long imperial history, but like any country, being exploited is always better than colonization. The British conquerors saw a lot from it. When they began to defeat the Chinese in the Opium War, they soon only demanded free trade in Hong Kong. Then they will use agents to exploit China from within.

中国有着悠久的帝国历史,但与任何国家一样,被剥削总是比殖民化好。英国征服者从中看到了很多,当他们开始鸦片战争打败中国人时,他们很快只要求香港的自由贸易。然后他们会利用代理人从内部剥削中国。

In the 19th century, the same was true of other empires: Russia claimed land from China and gained advantages by making peace with the rebels from Xinjiang to Mongolia; Japan occupied the Northeast and Taiwan, and France, Germany, Austria and Italy also exploited China from within. Similarly, the Americans stationed their garrison and, in a later period of time, authorized the pro-American faction in China and sold Chinese workers from California to Alabama. Countries that did not participate in dividing the Chinese cake also used Chinese people as slaves, especially Peru, Brazil and Mexico, where many Chinese people became victims of racism.

十九世纪,其他帝国也是如此:沙俄向中国索取土地,并通过武装与新疆到蒙古的叛军媾和来获取优势;日本占领了东北和台湾,法国、德国、奥地利和意大利也从内部剥削了中国。同样美国人驻扎了他们的驻军,并在后来的一段时间里,授权了中国境内的亲美派,并将加利福尼亚州的中国华工卖给了阿拉巴马州。没有参与分割中国蛋糕的国家也利用中国人作为奴隶,特别是秘鲁、巴西和墨西哥,在这些国家,许多中国人成为种族主义的受害者。

No wonder China has not been colonized. Because it was exploited, the imperialist countries and powers wanted her to bleed to death, because the war against China would be particularly stupid. The Qing Dynasty perished because it led to the exploitation and drying of its resources by imperialist powers from Europe and the United States. This is the source of humiliation for a hundred years.

难怪中国没有被殖民。因为它被剥削,各个帝国主义国家列强希望她流血而死,因为对中国的战争将是特别愚蠢的。清朝灭亡是因为它导致了来自欧洲和美国的帝国列强对她的资源进行剥削和榨干。这正是百年屈辱的渊源。



越南网友Ziaddine Chahoudi的回答

The British Empire could not completely occupy China for the following reasons.

大英帝国无法彻底侵占中国,原因如下。

China is too big and has too many people. The British Empire did not have enough strength and troops to conquer a country with a population of 340 million.

中国太大,人口太多。大英帝国并没有足够的力量和军队来征服一个三四亿人口的国家。

Compared with the United Kingdom, China's military strength is slightly inferior, but not the same as that of Spain against the Inca. The Chinese also have guns and cannons, although they are outdated. In the land war, the British have less advantages than in the sea war. For example, the British suffered 15000 irreparable casualties when they conquered Myanmar. The cost of British conquest of China is at least several times that of Myanmar.

与英国相比,中国的军事实力略逊一筹,但与西班牙对阵印加并不一样。中国人也有枪和大炮,尽管已经过时了。在陆战中,英国人不如在海上作战有优势。例如,英国人在征服下缅甸时遭受了15000人无法挽回的伤亡。英国征服中国的代价至少是缅甸的几十倍。

The British Empire has no money to do so. The conquest of Myanmar, which was much smaller than China, brought great financial problems to the British Indian treasury in the 19th century, and it was even more powerless in the face of China.

大英帝国没有钱这样做。征服比中国小得多的缅甸,就在19世纪给英属印度的国库带来了很大的财政问题,面对中国它就更加无能为力了。

Unlike India, which has many kingdoms, China was unified under the rule of the Qing Dynasty. The British can't divide and rule like many other places.

与拥有众多王国的印度不同,中国在清朝统治下统一。英国人无法像其他许多地方那样分而治之。

Other superpowers are also interested in China, so they have balanced Britain in ruling China.

其他超级大国也对中国感兴趣,因此他们在统治中国方面制衡了英国。

For these reasons, this led the British to force China to sign unequal treaties and let them conduct "profitable" trade with China instead of military conquest.

由于这些原因,这导致英国人强迫中国签署不平等条约,让他们与中国进行“有利可图”的贸易,而不是军事征服。



中国网友陈默的回答


Coincidentally, in the game between imperialism and Asia, the United States is the key role in preventing China from being divided up. In 1898, when the United States won the Spanish-American War, it took the first "colony" from Spain: the Philippines (which is a bad deal for Filipinos), Guam and Puerto Rico. Ironically, the idea of "owning a colony" does not conform to the United States Constitution. But by owning a colony, the United States has tasted the "sweetness" of the largest imperialist country, just like the British leader in India.

巧合的是,在帝国主义对亚洲的博弈中,美国是阻止中国被瓜分的关键角色。1898年,当美国赢得美西战争时,它从西班牙手中夺走了第一个“殖民地”:菲律宾(对菲律宾人来说,这自然是一笔糟糕的交易)以及关岛和波多黎各。具有讽刺意味的是,“拥有殖民地”的想法并不符合美国宪法。但通过拥有一个殖民地,让美国尝到了帝国主义老大国家的“甜头”,就像英国在印度的老大一样。

In the late 19th century, China was on the verge of being divided up by Britain (coastal areas, Yangtze River basin), France (Yunnan region), and the Russian Empire (Mongolia, Upper Manchuria and northern Xinjiang). Japan (South Manchuria, Korean Peninsula and Taiwan Island) and Germany (Qingdao area). Seeing that the United States does not have much meat to eat, President McKinsey vowed to implement the notorious "open door" policy, which means that "all countries have equal opportunities to trade with China", so China should maintain a complete entity. Of course, Mackinzie never bothered to seek the opinions of China on this announcement, just as the British never bothered to seek the opinions of India when Queen Victoria was declared "Queen of India".

19世纪晚期,中国濒临被英国(沿海地区、长江流域)、法国(云南地区)、俄罗斯帝国(蒙古、上满洲和新疆北部)瓜分。日本(南满、朝鲜半岛和台湾岛)和德国(青岛地区)。看到美国没有多少肉可吃,麦金齐总统发誓要推行臭名昭著的“门户开放”政策,这意味着“所有国家都有平等的机会与中国进行贸易”,因此中国应该保持一个完整的实体。当然,麦金齐从未费心就这一公告征求中国的意见,就像维多利亚女王被宣布为“印度女皇”时,英国人从未费心征求印度的意见一样。

Therefore, for the sake of the United States' trade policy, China was retained as an entity; It is roughly the same as India's practice of maintaining unity for the convenience of the British government.

因此,为了美国的贸易政策,中国被保留为一个实体;与印度为方便英国政府而保持统一的做法大致相同。



海外网友阿南德的回答

Because after the success of the First British-China War and the Second British-China War, Britain could get almost everything they wanted from China, and it was no good to conquer China.

因为在第一次英中战争和第二次英中大战成功后,英国几乎可以从中国得到他们想要的一切,而征服中国完全没有好处。

In fact, Britain just wants China to become a big market to sell industrial products and profit from it. After the two wars, they can export their products without any restrictions of the Qing government (this regulation is also mainly determined by Britain). The British government and businessmen in China can have many additional rights. In order to further expand trade, they even took Hong Kong as the port of the Far East.

事实上,英国只是想让中国成为一个大市场来销售工业产品并从中获利,而在两次战争之后,他们可以不受清政府的任何限制地出口他们的产品(这一法规也主要由英国决定),英国政府和在中国的商人可以拥有许多额外的权利。为了进一步扩大贸易,他们甚至把香港作为远东的港口。

After the British got what they wanted, it was absolutely unnecessary to conquer. Even if it was possible, the cost of conquering China would certainly be higher than the income.

在英国得到他们想要的东西之后,征服是完全没有必要的,即使征服是可能的,征服中国的成本肯定比收益还要高。

Although China's technological development at that time was far behind that of Britain, China still had its own civilization and culture, with a population of about 400 million, which made the cost of conquering and managing China as a large colony like India very high. What would Britain get after that? Only the Chinese territory and 400 million Chinese farmers, far away from Europe, are full of hatred for such a huge population because of different cultures, conquest and domination, as well as endless instability and rebellion.

尽管当时中国的技术发展远远落后于英国,但中国仍有自己的文明和文化,中国人口约为4亿,这使得征服和管理中国作为印度这样的大殖民地的成本必须非常高,而英国在这之后会得到什么?只有远离欧洲的中国领土和4亿中国农民,因为不同的文化、征服和支配,以及无尽的不稳定和叛乱,他们对如此庞大的人口充满仇恨。

What made Britain a successful empire in the 19th century was not only their strength, but also their wisdom to judge the situation and obtain more benefits at a lower cost.

使英国在19世纪成为一个成功帝国的不仅是他们的实力,还有他们判断形势、以更低的成本获得更多利益的智慧。



海外网友亚当•费德的回答

Before I answer this question, we should clarify some misunderstandings.

在我回答这个问题之前,我们应该澄清一些误解。

When the British came, India did not split into many kingdoms. Today, more than 60% of India's population is under Malassas. This is more important than China during the Opium War.

英国人来的时候,印度并没有分裂成许多王国。今天印度60%以上的人口都在马拉萨斯统治之下。这比鸦片战争时期的中国更重要。

The British were only interested in trade and never thought of ruling India. Therefore, in order to trade in their own way, they launched a war against the conquered/overthrown king of India in order to obtain a better trade agreement. The puppet king was placed. This led to complete anarchy, and a rebellion took place in 1857. The British feel that it is necessary to establish an appropriate government so as to maintain order and protect their trade interests.

英国人只是对贸易感兴趣,从未想过要统治印度。因此,为了以自己的方式进行贸易,他们对被征服/推翻的印度国王发动了战争,以获得更好的贸易协议。傀儡国王被安置。这导致了彻底的无政府状态,1857年发生了叛乱。英国人觉得有必要建立一个适当的政府,这样才能维持秩序,保护他们的贸易利益。

However, even their government is indirect, that is, by squeezing out the last piece of pie from Indians. Remember, most of the British Industrial Revolution came at the expense of India. Similarly, after defeating China in the Opium War, the British only wanted opium trade. If they want to conquer, they can do it.

然而,即使是他们的政府也是间接的,也就是通过从印度人身上挤出最后一块馅饼的扎明达尔。记住,英国工业革命的大部分是以牺牲印度为代价的。同样,在鸦片战争中击败中国后,英国人想要的只是鸦片贸易。如果他们想征服,他们可以做到。

The British just want money, no matter what they get from the opium trade. Therefore, as long as China is open to the opium trade, Britain has no reason to conquer it. This also means that even at the expense of its own people, China will not yield to British conditions and be conquered.

英国人只是想要钱,无论他们从鸦片贸易中得到什么。所以,只要中国对鸦片贸易开放,英国就没有理由征服它。这也意味着,即使以自己的人民为代价,中国也不会屈服于英国的条件而被征服。

India lies between Britain and China. Therefore, the large navies of western countries are easier to reach India than China. Therefore, the direct conflict between Britain and China has always been a thorny issue.

印度位于英国和中国之间。因此,西方国家的大型海军比中国更容易抵达印度。因此,英国和中国之间的直接冲突始终是一个棘手的问题。

In short, under the conditions at that time, conquering China had little effect.

简而言之,在当时的条件下,征服中国几乎没有什么作用。



海外网友威廉姆斯的回答


This is my personal view. The British conquest of India is a great fluke in history. Like other parts of the world, India has experienced a period of unification and division, and then this cycle repeats itself. It took the British Empire more than 200 years to conquer India.

这是我个人的看法,英国对印度的征服是历史上的一大侥幸。印度和世界上其他地方一样,经历了统一时期和分裂时期,然后这种周期反复出现。英帝国征服印度花了200多年的时间。

Around the 1670s, the Mughal Empire collapsed, and the rulers of the Mughal Empire controlled various regions of India. Nizam of Hyderabad, Nawab of Odd, and Nawab of Bangladesh all inherited their titles from the Mughal emperor. The Mughal Empire was destroyed by the guerrilla war of Malassas and the religious fanaticism of Auranghazeb (the last Mughal emperor).

大约在1670年代,莫卧儿帝国崩溃,莫卧尔帝国的统治者控制了印度的各个地区。海得拉巴的尼扎姆(Nizam)、奥德的纳瓦布(Nawab)、孟加拉的纳瓦布等都从莫卧儿皇帝那里继承了他们的头衔。莫卧儿帝国被马拉萨斯游击战和奥朗加泽布(最后一位莫卧儿皇帝)的宗教狂热所摧毁。

Since the 1500's, all European powers have existed in India, but they cannot challenge the Mughal Emperor. Portuguese, Dutch and British have tried, but failed. Even after the fall of the Mughal Empire, the main growth force in India was not the British, but Malatas. Malatas defeated the British in the previous two wars and are the main force for India to control Delhi.

自1500年代以来,所有的欧洲强国都存在于印度,但他们无法挑战莫卧儿皇帝。葡萄牙人、荷兰人、英国人等尝试过,但都失败了。即使在莫卧儿帝国灭亡后,在印度最主要的增长力量也不是英国人,而是马拉塔斯。马拉塔人在前两次战争中击败了英国人,是印度控制德里的主要力量。

The battle of Panipat took place between the Persian emperor Nadir Shah and the Malassans. This was a victory for Nadir Shah, but it broke the resolve of the two empires. In that battle, the Malata Empire lost all its leadership and went into decline. At this time, India, in a state of continuous war (very similar to the period of the Warring States Period of China and the period after the collapse of the Ming Empire), was exhausted.

波斯皇帝纳迪尔·沙赫和马拉萨人之间发生了帕尼帕特战役。这对纳迪尔·沙阿来说是一场胜利,但它打破了两个帝国的决心。在那场战役中,玛拉塔帝国失去了所有的领导地位,走向衰落。此时,处于持续战争状态的印度(与中国战国时期和明朝帝国崩溃后的时期非常相似)已经筋疲力尽。

Britain swooped like a vulture and conquered the Malata Empire, Bangladesh and other parts of the subcontinent. Now, if Malassas can win the Panipat War, it will be very different. Britain is no more advanced in military than India. In fact, the British have adopted many Indian technologies, such as parliamentary rocket and shipbuilding technology. Most British wooden ships were built in India by Indian shipyards, canning technology companies and steel mills. China's fate is indeed similar to that of India before the First World War. This is similar to the fate of India.

英国像秃鹫一样地猛扑过来,征服了马拉塔帝国、孟加拉和次大陆其他地区。现在,如果马拉萨斯能赢得帕尼帕特战争,那就大不一样了。英国在军事上并不比印度先进。事实上,英国人采用了许多印度技术,比如国会火箭、造船技术。大多数英国木船是由印度造船厂、罐头技术公司和钢铁厂在印度建造的。中国的命运的确与第一次世界大战前的印度相似。这与印度的命运相似。

To answer your question, it is normal for China not to lose to Britain, and it is also normal for India to lose to Britain. The British conquered India because they were in the right place at the right time.

回答你的问题,中国不输给英国是一种常态,而印度输给英国也是一种常态。英国人征服印度是因为英国人在正确的时间、正确的地点。

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